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quote:

The rH test has the ability to show you what is going to happen when you cover the concrete surface with a moisture barrier, or glue, that is going to inhibit the surface moisture release and the internal concrete moisture equalizes, from bottom to top. There is always more moisture in the concrete the lower you go into the concrete on an exposed slab. Cover that slab and the bottom and top equalize.

And I'll ask again.

It depends on what you cover the surface with as to how well the concrete may, or may not, equalize.

I've yet to see the research on this subject. Can you direct us to some factual information?

Like you said "The rH test has the ability to show you what is going to happen when you cover the concrete surface with a moisture barrier, or glue, that is going to inhibit the surface moisture release and the internal concrete moisture equalizes, from bottom to top. "

A one, or two hour, seminar does not make anybody an expert. The physical properties of water and vapor still apply.

Mr. Snowy is correct. Some adhesives and floorcovering breathe more than others.

quote:

Originally posted by Relentless1:

quote:

Originally posted by Relentless1:
I'll say it again...



show you what is going to happen when you cover the concrete surface with a moisture barrier, or glue, that is going to inhibit the surface moisture release

In case you didn't comprehend the first time.

I'll let you spend the time and money to take the class, like it did. Oh wait, they won't let you take the class, because your Ray Darrah and for some reason, has a bad rep with the instructors, I'm finding out.

Ray, I have given you just enough to hang yourself, now go get educated before you look even more like a fool about rH testing and what your actually looking at with the test.

Perry,

Perry goes to one class for 1/2 hour and he's a genius.

What happened to your Certs>?? all gone are they?

Perry; you are the perfect example of "A Little knowledge is dangerous".

You have proven time and time, again, that you go get a little learning and you think you know more than you do............... and become dangerous.

Just like the Cupping issue.
Just like the Delam issue.

I think you should stick to the butt to mouth thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:


What happened to your Certs>?? all gone are they?

This proves without a doubt, your clueless!!! All my certs are right there where they always have been. I posted the links to my certs, but as always your to self absorbed for anything else to sink in.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:
Just like the Cupping issue.
Just like the Delam issue.

I fed you crow with the cupping and compression set at Kens site 2 years ago
Linda educated me on delamination, after I called the 18% wood subfloor as the cause. What is "shear" again, and what causes it??

So what's that have to do with your lacking knowledge about rH testing and what your looking for. Your no different then the installer that has a moisture meter, but has no clue what the numbers mean. Smoke & Mirrors.

Go play "switch" some more, and quit blaming others for your stinky upper lip.

Tell us what the numbers indicate rather than tell the rest of us we don't. I realize you must be tired of being reminded of the many times you've made an ass of yourself, so quit trying so hard to continue the practice.

If you recall; you stated on Ken's site that there is no such thing as 'compression' cupping and the only way wood will cup is due to moisture moisture... This was after you attended Howards class and thought you knew it all... after learning that cupping can occur from the wood having no place to go upon gaining moisture after installation the edges will raise (cupping).... then you became a genius again knowing there is such a thing..

A little knowledge is dangerous and you continue to display that fact.

Here is your chance to show us all about yourself.

Show us your brilliance !! Tell us what the numbers mean!!

All ya gotta do is read the Standard, so that should not be so hard for you to do.

And by the way Mr. Thumb in Butt to Mouth;

You wrote a report stating that engineered wood delaminated because it was stored on the garage and was Installation related.

That is when you were taught the ANSI standards and all about Delamination, and it was I who sent the report back with the standards for you to study.

Then we saw you post those standards all over the internet as if you were now a Genius on Engineered Wood Flooring.

A little knowledge and you become dangerous. Over and Over again...

Time out! Time out!

guys, please,

can't you guys argue without "yelling" and insults?

I am trying and gets hard but I am trying,,,

time out! please, Do you two really want to say these things about each other?

I mean, both of you, are skinny ugly ole men that scare children you both are so ugly,,,,you have that in common!

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:
Tell us what the numbers indicate rather than tell the rest of us we don't. I realize you must be tired of being reminded of the many times you've made an ass of yourself, so quit trying so hard to continue the practice.

I'll say it again, and I might have to say it a lot more times, before it actually sinks into your thick sckull, go spend your time, and money to educate yourself. It is obvious to me, you have done neither, yet you want to spout untruth and opinion about the subject, you show no knowledge of, other then there is a rH test for concrete.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:
If you recall; you stated on Ken's site that there is no such thing as 'compression' cupping and the only way wood will cup is due to moisture moisture...

Your a lying piece of work!!! Your a complete liar and this even deepens what everyone has explained to me about your unethical character. Your the one that deleted and edited your posts. Mine are all still there for all to see, even with the original quote from you. Everyone saw it, so who is the liar.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:This was after you attended Howards class and thought you knew it all...

I can honestly say, after his class I knew way more then I did before attending and achieving a wood science degree. I put you in your place when you were spreading your bogus opinion to the subjects of wood at Ken's place, and after putting you in your place and feeding you crow daily, you edited all your posts[

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:A little knowledge is dangerous and you continue to display that fact.

Only dangerous to you, who just recently actually gain a little of the knowledge, after taking more then once to pass an easy exam.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:.Here is your chance to show us all about yourself.

I don't need to show you a thing... Your Ray Darrah, I don't need to show you anything. Your too self absorbed to be educated. That's OK, keep up the posts. It brings out your true character for all to see.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:

Show us your brilliance !!

Ray, your the only one that thinks I'm brilliant.

Other could care less.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:Tell us what the numbers mean!!

I'll say it again, and I might have to say it a lot more times, before it actually sinks into your thick sckull, go spend your time, and money to educate yourself. It is obvious to me, you have done neither, yet you want to spout untruth and opinion about the subject, you show no knowledge of, other then there is a rH test for concrete.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:All ya gotta do is read the Standard, so that should not be so hard for you to do.

Reading the standards is easy, the hard part for you and it is displayed here often, is your inability to comprehend what you read.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:


You wrote a report stating that engineered wood delaminated because it was stored on the garage and was Installation related.

I did, care to show that report to everyone??

Why are you able to read any of my reports, isn't that unethical. Or are you just blowing smoke again??

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:

That is when you were taught the ANSI standards and all about Delamination, and it was I who sent the report back with the standards for you to study.

Yes, delamination of engineered wood as described.

Not the thick sawn wear layer, and a different species as the core, and then also no balancing layer on the bottom. That is not an engineered as defined. That is a manufactured board, that has no common definitions with the description of engineered. What is shear again?? You still have no given your opinion of that term and what causes it?

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:

Then we saw you post those standards all over the internet as if you were now a Genius on Engineered Wood Flooring.

They were posted for debate, just as I suggested above. What actually is an engineered, and what is this stuff we see today, since those engineered specs were drawn up in 2002, when we had balanced construction, with the same species of wood throughout the laminations, and all layers being equally as thick as the others. Go back and look at the posts, and once again comprehend. I know its hard for you to do, but read slower and all of it, before you post and make yourself look even more like a fool!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Darrah:

A little knowledge and you become dangerous.

Writing your biography again are you.



I'll admit, you never learn and always come back for more. You love licking your wounds, don't ya. About just as much as you like to play switch.

quote:

Yes, delamination of engineered wood as described.

Not the thick sawn wear layer, and a different species as the core, and then also no balancing layer on the bottom. That is not an engineered as defined. That is a manufactured board, that has no common definitions with the description of engineered. What is shear again?? You still have no given your opinion of that term and what causes it?

And so why would that be an installation related issue?

It was up for debate. Placing standards to a board that does not even meet the definition, in any way.

This goes back to that term "Shear" that everyone is talking about and how stress relates to that term and how stress is involved in this new construction, that does not meet the definition of engineered when it is shipped and installed.


Remember... Wood does, what wood does.

How much stress is applied to this new type of construction when installing it over 18% wood subfloor? Is that manufacturing, or installation. You tell me?? I think Ray lost the Lumber Liquidators account over this, or was it because he change a report from what was submitted and he got caught.

There were 3 ply 3/8" engineered 10 years ago and you rarely saw a delamination claim. End peaking, yes, but cupping & buckling, No.

And if it was a balanced plywood? Would that make a difference?

Was the wood subfloor 18% when they started or did it change after the installation?

I have read about a balanced plywood and I just find it very hard to believe that a veneer thats 3/16 or over is going to act like solid hardwood. I have never seen this documented either.

So your saying that its the installers fault for installing an unbalanced hardwood plywood?

quote:

Originally posted by Bullitt:
And if it was a balanced plywood? Would that make a difference?

Stephen, that is my point exactly.


Ray has a way of twisting and turning the truth, to suit his needs.


Lets see?? The day before they floated big areas of the plywood, with a soupy mix of Mapei PlaniPatch, as evident by the foam bubbles where they didn't get finished before this stuff started blowing in the heat of the window light coming in.

Then lets think of stress, and what is really going on.

Dear Relentless1,

Please explain and teach us what the Rh number is reading and what it means.

I don't understand how the Rh of a slab has anything to do with water in a slab when Rh is all about vapor in the air...
Is there air and vapor in concrete that the meter is reading?

Construction Technology Laboratories, Inc., Skokie Ill. (phone: 847/972-3316). ASTM Committee F06 meets March 18-20 in Kansas City, Mo. For meeting or membership details, contact Steve Mawn, manager, Technical Committee Operations, ASTM International (phone: 610/832-9726).


Contact them and see when their next class on the subject of concrete moisture and testing, is scheduled.

I believe the cost is around $2500

quote:

Originally posted by Relentless1:
Construction Technology Laboratories, Inc., Skokie Ill. (phone: 847/972-3316). ASTM Committee F06 meets March 18-20 in Kansas City, Mo. For meeting or membership details, contact Steve Mawn, manager, Technical Committee Operations, ASTM International (phone: 610/832-9726).


Contact them and see when their next class on the subject of concrete moisture and testing, is scheduled.

I believe the cost is around $2500

I was pretty sure you did not understand the relationship... now we KNOW you don't understand the relationship.

You just listened to one speaker in Atlanta and thought you were an expert.

I think we all need to know what the Rh probe is reading...

Is it reading the Rh of the air in the hole, not the moisture content in the slab and that is why one must allow time for the test to be read after insertion?

quote:

Is it reading the Rh of the air in the hole, not the moisture content in the slab and that is why one must allow time for the test to be read after insertion?

Can I answer...can I?

I'll comment after the Per speaks.

Please explain it to us Bullitt !!

We also don't know how the Relative Humidity in the slab equates to water in the slab... How does one convert Rh (Vapor) to solid water and vise-versa?
- What is it about the Rh of a slab that is so important with Water is in the slab and water evaporates (vapor) once it reaches the top of the slab? Or is there vapor in a concrete slab?

So many questions... no answers...

quote:

Originally posted by Relentless1:
Construction Technology Laboratories, Inc., Skokie Ill. (phone: 847/972-3316). ASTM Committee F06 meets March 18-20 in Kansas City, Mo. For meeting or membership details, contact Steve Mawn, manager, Technical Committee Operations, ASTM International (phone: 610/832-9726).


Contact them and see when their next class on the subject of concrete moisture and testing, is scheduled.

I believe the cost is around $2500

ASTM does not give classes.
CTL does not give classes.

What the heck ya talking about?
Oh, never mind............... you don't know any of the answers and your too proud to admit it so you make this post to cover up.. gotcha..