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Whats changed your mind?

The man changed my mind for me. In addition- the advent and availability of sealers that actually work and are affordable.

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But I lnow how to recifiy most situations

An ultrasonic leak detector would be a much better investment IMO.

sorry about that rant,
in Memphis,
went to the hotel bar,,,too many beers, I am not used to drinking more than two beers these days, topped it off with a shot,,,,
and, well, sorry about that Mr. Wayner,

I was just messin' with ya. You seemed a bit on edge lately so I figured I'd push ya off to get ya cussin'. Forgive my selfishness.

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Originally posted by ĶĦĄØŞ:

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Whats changed your mind?

The man changed my mind for me. In addition- the advent and availability of sealers that actually work and are affordable.

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But I lnow how to recifiy most situations

An ultrasonic leak detector would be a much better investment IMO.

Now I know your messing with me too. Leak detectors are not in any guidelines or standards.

The only guidelines and standards I work from are my own.

And the colored girls go
doo do doo do doo do do doo

All manufacturers REQUIRE a CC test, at least document you did one and the results!!

At this time, there is no definitive # to go with 2071.

It works if you know what your doing, but they have not been accepted...... Yet. No manufacturer of adhesive or wood, has placed a 2071 rH # with any of their products.

Howard Kanare has testing, showing the two test side by side in comparison, and there is no comparison!!

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Howard Kanare has testing, showing the two test side by side in comparison, and there is no comparison!!

And you can actually see his graph of almost a hunderd comparison tests side by side on the Wagner site but you can't copy it, I tried.

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Yet. No manufacturer of adhesive or wood, has placed a 2071 rH # with any of their products.

Yes there is.

Stephen, have you had any experience with "rafter slabs" in your area??

How are you going to test those with an Rh probe??

The European companies have rH #'s

What your going to see with wood especially, (soon) is a 2071 -rH%, that will be manufacturer specific, depending on wood species and type of construction.

Besides the rH, what else is that probe reading???

Stephen, use an old browser like Netscape 4.7 or 6.0 and you can copy anything you wish.

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What your going to see with wood especially, (soon) is a 2071 -rH%, that will be manufacturer specific, depending on wood species and type of construction.

I am not at liberty to discuss it. I wouldn't want to scoop any manufactures advertisements, I promised. If you would simply take the time to watch Howards August 1, 2008 seminar at the Wagner site you most certainly would learn more than you did at the wood shop party. And for free at that.

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Originally posted by Bullitt:
Anyone out there doing ASTM F-2170 testing?

For informational purposes, you guys are still discussing this testing and not the 2071 Taylor goo?

thanks, yep,
just a lot of "junk" and "industry politics", I am sure you can relate from similar experiences,

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Originally posted by Relentless1:
Stephen, have you had any experience with "rafter slabs" in your area??

How are you going to test those with an Rh probe??

I didn't see a response???

Ya got me stumped Perry. I have been doin new construction for over thirty years and you think I never heard of a rafter slab? How about an engineered slab? How bout a post tension slab?

Please give us the answers Perry cus I know the only people that know ANYTHING about slabs were at that get together and its all top secret!

Please help us dummy's here.

John Namba actually brought it up at the shindig.

He explained then and how they were just starting to be seen in Arizona.

Instead of your typical residential slab thickness of around 4" they are deep. Real deep. Your probe ain't going to get down where you really need it to determine what the slab will become after flooring is over it.

so, that much material, how will "aspect ratio" affect VE tests?
be creative with the bs answers, now, ya har!

Lets get real here...any flooring guy that cares what the rh is half-way through a 12" thick hunk of concrete needs to seriously get a hobby. Seal it and git 'er done!

Khaos,
a man I know, PhD engineer, specializes in homes and light construction,
asked me once about concrete moisture testing when so many good sealers are out there? and why test if you are always going to find high VE, just go ahead, seal it!
and why test after there are visual evidence of moisture, you see the evidence, why test? go ahead, seal it!

so, this is what I told him,
a big bunch of useless people who are useless,
see a way to make money doing useless tests,
getting the money from more useless people,
who have useless money they have no need for,
and with their useless brains,
that do not realize how useless all this useless testing is,
that it only helps the useless testers,
who have useless morals and ethics,
hire the useless people to do useless tests
so they can give their useless money to the useless people,,,,,

if you guys will look around, the people who promote this testing the most, are wanting the useless contractors to send them their useless money,,,

Stephen is just excited about a new toy he wants,

will admit, for someone like Stephen, doing a lot of glue down work, or anyone doing a lot of glue down work, with all the useless testers looking to blame the useful installers, it is good to protect your butt,,,,,

as for who are these useless people promoting this the most? the useless inspectors instructors, who want the dumb inspectors to pay them to learn how to do VE testing! when, the instructions are on the package, do you guys know, some of these "schools" charge almost a grand to teach how to grind concrete and put down a test kit! and these fools pay! and who, in their world, is the person to always blame? the installer....
this is an "out" for the manufacturers to always have a built in "out" blaming the installers,,,

I even heard, of one school, charging grand to teach inspectors how to inspect stained concrete! So far, three guys I know who took that class two years ago, have yet to even have one telephone call asking about the "service",,,I mean, what did these inspectors think a store would do, close down for a month because the concrete starts to look funky? as I bet Mr. Khaos would say, cover the damn thing and move on!

what ever happen, to good common sense? wait, my bad, my useless mind just kicked in, I forget, I am ranting and raving about flooring biz

Good rant Lee.

So the europeans have been doing Rh testing for as long as we have been doing the CC test? Why? Well the flooring manufactures want it. They are the ones who forced the invention of metering devices and the metering industry ie rubber manufactures back in the day. Then the CC test after the mat test. Why? Failing floors.

I have always had the same feeling about testing, if the consumer does not want to pay for sealer and my CC test reads high, I get a waiver and go on. If it comes in high and I seal it....will that sealer block enough emissions> The manufactures of the sealer say so but will it? Test it again and get mo money. Why not?

And as some of you have witnessed one of my last CC tests came in three times higher because it failed to stick properly on a very pourous slab. Therefore in that instance the RH test is better.