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yea,
helps if you are not too ugly,
slt

Ugly as in me being ugly to Ray?? I deny everything. I have always been nice and courteous to Ray. In a southern red neck kind of way.

You taught me I must respect him. Plain spoken maybe but ugly?? Selva I am shattered that you would think that of me.


Mike

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mikecurrin,

I was talking about how ugly in appearance some inspectors are! I mean, most will scare the fuzzards off a buzzard,
but, if you want to be ugly to Ray, no one here is going to stop you!

quote:

Originally posted by MSNBC:
Stephen,
You will have to explain that one to us...

Tell us what the manufacturers are hiding that they don't want anybody to know...

Gap tolerences, ve and mc concerns, lippage/overwood tolerences, stretching dynamics of softbac-ings, limits of ve in relation to 2 and 3 in 1 underlayments ect ect.

Things that are not generally know to the installation community and are not readily included in the installation specifications.

well,
have to agree with Stephen in some ways,
the best place to see that in action is that convention held each year for all the F rated inspectors where distributor reps get up, act as techs, and tell the stupids how to write up reports that always says, site conditions, enduser abuse, and their favorite, installer error.

Selva,
I did appreciate your speaking at the Conventions. I thought you were good.

Was that a stab or a jab?

a jab I guess I have never spoken at any convention in front of any group,
not my thing, I let the others have the big egos like inspectors are important, we are not in the world view, but, to listen to some, we are the only people who can find world peace on earth.

quote:

Originally posted by hardknees:

quote:

Originally posted by MSNBC:
Stephen,
You will have to explain that one to us...

Tell us what the manufacturers are hiding that they don't want anybody to know...

Gap tolerences, ve and mc concerns, lippage/overwood tolerences, stretching dynamics of softbac-ings, limits of ve in relation to 2 and 3 in 1 underlayments ect ect.

Things that are not generally know to the installation community and are not readily included in the installation specifications.

All these things have Standards............... Go get the standards...............
ANSI also has standards............

quote:

Originally posted by SelvaLee:
a jab I guess I have never spoken at any convention in front of any group,
not my thing, I let the others have the big egos like inspectors are important, we are not in the world view, but, to listen to some, we are the only people who can find world peace on earth.

I've never spoken either.. not my thing........ don't have the patience to teach or the desire to be a speaker..
Actually, I did try to teach one time and Speak to a Class at Carl Williams hard surface training........... The only thing it proved was "Ray not a good teacher"!!!

I have never spoken before a group either, but I don't understand the jab at Selva, please explain Ray. In Detail. Please.

Mike

I have spoken to large groups at conventions as well as at Surfaces. I have also taught the cirriculum of several installation related courses. I suppose some people are natural public speakers, I'm not one of them, although like most things if you work hard and practice you get better.

ok, I keep thinking about this discussion and then, wham bam bing bang,
a friend, installer, I met while doing inspections called me with an finish problem in some prefinished wood he installed last fall. He asked if I would inspect it if he turned in a claim. I told him in his area, most likely it would go to another inspector from that carpet mill. He said he would request me.
He filed the claim thru the dealer the wood was bought by the consumer, who had hired him. There are two issues. Severe finish face checking in engineered wood and light ends/shinny edges on the eased,,,,
so, I did not think I would get it and I did not. They sent out this, person, who wrote it up as installation. He stated the wood was not acclimated as the reason for the severe face checking,,, duhhhhhhh,,, so wrong beyond stupid,,, then, on the light ends he wrote up the installer installed a visible defect. At the time of the installation (I taught him this! so proud! of him and me so let me brag about this!) when he saw the light ends/ shinny eased sides, he called the dealer, got a number for the sales rep and reported directly to him the problem. The sales rep told him to go ahead and installed. The installer wrote down the date, time, number called, used his cell so he obtained a copy of his cell calls showing the date and time to the dealer and sales rep!,,,,
When the report came back, the dealer blamed him based on the report. The installer asked the dealer why I was not used. The dealer said the sales rep always uses this inspector, that they go out on claims together when the sales rep needs someone to , I say, misdirect, he says, help convince the consumer there is no real problem,,,,,
this inspector has all the work for this mill in the area. Just recently, he lost "my area" to me,,,,I started charging mileage on long ones so the mills started getting the idea, no breaks on the long ones if no local work,,,,so now, this inspector is really bad mouthing me to the sales rep who is bad mouthing me to the claims department who, so far, are not listening,,,, is this the way to market with sales reps? if so, you can keep it,,,,the sales rep on this wood claim, was mad when the consumer called the mill direct and faxed a documented copy of the installers documentation,,, (that I taught him,hehehehe)and reported that they also documented every call, by date and time, to the sales rep!

another update, I got a call from the rep and then later from a manager, wants to know why I am involved, I said as an inspector for the installer and why were they breaking "inspection ethicis" by calling me without permission of my commissioning party,,,, they acted shocked I would SAY that to them, then, I reminded them it was their rule and they get upset if we talk to their consumers without their permission, so, works both ways,,,, any comments,,,,
slt

Words mean things, Independent, unbiased means just that.

If a rep or manager questions your report (if they commissioned it) and don't like it, then tell them that they paid for your professional opinion in the matter, and they got what they paid for. If they want a second opinion they are free to get one (from someone else).

Mike

Selva,
what standards did you quote and what was your conclusion?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ray H. Darrah,

When I was installing, I had a similar incident. I called the store and stopped a job because of defective goods. Went back to the store. The dealer had the rep on the phone he told the dealer to go ahead and install it and he would get new carpet ordered and pay for the labor. The dealer then when it was time to get the replacement in, ask me to do the labor for free!! When I said no he said well you did install it with a defect. I had to remind him that I had stopped the job and had over heard him getting new carpet and labor because the rep knew the carpet was bad. He still persisted that one seam I made was unsatisfactory so I should do the install for free. I said NO!! The consumer called me wanting me back to do the install. I told her no as well. Had to quit the dealer over that job.

Mike

Ray,
what is the real purposes of standards? Industry Standards?

I have not inspected,,, I have just advised this installer in the past, as I posted,

I was requested but the analyst for that state will never allow me to work that state,,,from that mill,,,,

UV cured finish is__________?
UV cured finish will do what with shrink/swell?________
what standards will cover that?
Are you so hung up on standards that you have never realized what their real purposes are? if not, please do not ask me to educate you,,,,,

the standards are not "written in blood" and have a purpose or purposes,,,, to do what?,,,, so many times some inspectors get hung up on standards that they never realize their purpose(s) and love to quote them but, sometimes, you should forget the "written standards" getting back to what you know about, in this case, wood.

Ray, do you think severe face checking is installation related? if you have conditions in the wood that will cause face checking, how will acclimation stop it? what is face checking? I know you know, so, what is it, can you have face checking in the wood directly from the box? or, as it is acclimating on the floor?

What standard applies to light ends or shinny edges? do you have some that are not written by your funky service to protect your customers?

you as always, missed the purpose of the post,,,shame on you, Mike, your turn to fuss at him,

Actually I think he missed the purpose of the post.....on purpose. The carpet standards are minimum standards and can be changed by the manufacturer at will. The minimum standards can also be exceeded by installer at will. They can be invoked by and inspector or manufacturer at will. They can be ignored in a court of law at will. Read the UCC sometime Ray. Since you may not know what that is I will explain. It is the Uniform Commercial Code. Check the library.

Are your conclusions, not your opinion??

Mike

This is a wood claim?

I don't post politics...

I prefer to maintain discussions about failures and inspecting... And will continue to do so.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ray H. Darrah,