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quote:

Originally posted by Kevin:
I wish you were near me because I dont think I can justify the extra expenses to get you here for the job. Thanks for the pic. Take care!

But you can justify the extra expense so that you can have 1/16" grout joints? lol

Guess I should of kept reading, it keeps getting more ridiculous all the time. Ridiculous from what Kev's expectations where to the work done to the advice given. Sheesh...

Shoulda paid Chaos the bucks and been done with it.

How would you do it Bob? I think mudding the floor would be best for that substrate. But I am here to learn.

Kevin,

having someone mix SLC out of a bucket and trowel it in is not flattening nor leveling your floor right, like with an SLC that is pumped in bulk by a professional company.

Then he doesnt flatten it as needed and needs to jackhammer to repair it then he damages your slab ?

Hasnt he heard of a diamond cup grinder or diamond plate grinder ????

you would have been better off getting someone in there to screed the entire thing with patch to flatten it.

are you paying this guy time and materials to prep ?

is he charging you to repair the concrete he ruined ?

is he charging you for prep and repair of the dried "SLC" that caused additional high spots that never should have been there to begin with if he truely knoew what he was doing ????

sorry for your troubles.

seems like things keep getting worse for you.

you really should pay to contract someone in who knows what theya re doing, even if you have to pay more than you think you should, or hire a local high end tile retailer who is used to this type of high end exacting, intricate work.

Relentless1 and Hardknees:
Tell me about it! I definitely had to check my shorts when I saw it punch through and crumble...I about had a heart attack. I is completely not up to spec in any way shape or form, but what can you do? Cant exactly test for slab thickness when buying a house..lol...but with it being that thin there, I wont hesitate to think that it is that way elsewhere in the house.

Bob:
I very much considered trying to get someone from out of state, but I was determined to try and find someone local. I am not rich in the least bit, so I was hoping to try and avoid added cost of flying and lodging someone from out of town. Also, the thought of trying to resolve any issues that may pop up in the future is not a good thought. I can imagine how much fun it would be having to fly someone back out to fix something that goes wrong. That doesnt sound like something I would want to deal with. I think I have decided to go with standard porcelain tile, since I could not find a design/color I liked in the rectified tile. Therefore I have also decided to accept an 1/8" grout line in needed, but no larger. I am looking at 2 different tiles right now. First is a Shaw Everest 16x16" tile. Second is a Daltile Navelli ChinaNite 18x18". Its weird, because I am so picky on the look of the tile especially the coloring to work with my new kitchen, and I ended up liking these two tiles that are very cheap pricewise. Dont know about the quality though? I may be reading it wrong, but your replies almost seem condensending in a way, and I'm not sure why. I screwed up once again in my choices, and am now paying the price once again as always. But, no need to add fuel to the fire if you know what I mean.

Floorman67:
Thank you very much for your thoughts and input! Let me try and break down all that has happened up to this point a little more clearly:

My friend Eddie referred me to a gentleman named Mel. Eddie has been building high end pools for a over 12 years, including some million dollar ones, very high-end stuff. Mel works with him and also does flooring when not helping build custom pools. I assumed that Mel could handle a leveling job for sure, and maybe even the tiling job since he does that as well. But for now, I just want it leveled. His prep/level price was right on par with some of the other peoples prices for the same work. I gave him the green light.

Mel scraped up as much vinyl as he could with the motorized scraper and solutions. He then decided that he would like to put this Pre-Blend stuff on the entire floor to make it more level and uniform, covering up the small left-over vinyl glue that was remaining. In doing this, he did fill in the low spots, but in order to have this stuff covering the entire floor, he skimmed a very thin layer over the already high spot. So basically, the high spot issue was still there, with the only difference being the the low spots were filled in. The entire floor was completely covered up with Pre-Blend.

The question from the get go, was wether to bring the entire floor up to the level of the high spot, but that was sort of decided against due to the fact that the entire floor would have to be built up at least 1/2" to be 100% flat. Then add another 1/2" for the thinset mortar and another 3/8" for the tile and the floors would be almost 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" higher than before.

I went back and talked to Eddie again, and we decided to just bring down the high area. Eddie wanted to make sure that I got what I asked for, since he recommended Mel to me. Unfortunately, thats when things went in the shitter so to speak. Like I mentioned, he started grinding down the high spot until it gave way unexpectedly. We found out that the slab was only about 1-3/4" in that area, way under spec. Eddie suggested that the best solution to this new found problem is to cut out the entire high area, and pour a new floor in. He was extremely confident in this method, as he does it all the time on his job. He told me that he feels shitty that it happened, but had no idea that the floor was that thin. He said he will cut out the high area, dig out and grade the dirt deeper for a thicker slab in that area, lay the new moisture barrier, put in the rebar, and pour/level the concrete at no charge. I would only have to pay for the concrete itself and feed him...lol.... I agreed to this, as I didnt know what else to do.

Last night he made all the cuts. Today, he will bust out the old high area, dig out and grade the dirt deeper for a thicker slab in that area, lay the new moisture barrier, and put in the rebar. Tomorrow the concrete is coming in for the pour/level.

That is where it stands at this time. I will be holding off on the tile install itself for about a month for multiple reasons. I need time for the tiles that I choose to come in after ordering, time to install all of the base cabinetry, and time for the granite countertop people to do their thing. Also, this will alow a good amount of time for the new concrete to dry out. I am considering putting this product down just before tile install:

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/ProductCatalog/Su...spx?user=diy&lang=en

Any input on this stuff? Any better products? Thanks!

I still say mud in the floor if you have no height problems.

The Redgard is great for waterproofing but I wouldn't count on it for crack prevention myself especially on the slab.

I see it used incorrectly all the time. Installers splashing on one thin coat. I say nothing and just chuckle. OK I did ask one guy if he bothered to read the instructions and he got all pissy. The crack was almost 1/8 in think.

I find it truly amazing you cannot find a decent tile guy up there in the heavily populated North.

You normally wouldn't use a scabbler (attachment to a jack hammer) for that type of work. Although you could and it would be great for removing pool plaster.

You normally wouldn't use that patching material (it's not SLC) for floor underlayment although you could. It'd be great for repairing kool decks and shotcrete in a pool.

By accident and with little cost you'll wind up with a better floor overall. Good for you.

HardKnees:
I read up on the membrane type materials. I see the roll/brush on ones like the Redguard, as well as some other ones now like Laticrete Hydro Ban that sound good. But I also see membranes like Ditra, Flexguard, etc, that lay down. Those would be a sweet comforting thing for me to put down on this now questionable floor. But it will not have any cracks, and that stuff is super expensive to cover the whole floor just as a possible prevention if a crack 'happens' to show up.

I know there are some good installers around here, but I just havent got the felling that I found them yet, and that is after approx 6-7 people came out. I have already had no kitchen for over a month, and need it back badly....lol....hence the choosing someone prematurely again.

Tileman:
Thats exactly the tool he used to gring up the floor . Whats done is done now, and I must move on. I now wonder if I should have someone else relevel the entire floor with 'true' SLC to fill in the small inconsistancies left behind by the hand troweled Pre-Blend. After that, I will probably give the entire floor a treatment of HydroBan or Redguard to help waterproof it, provide anti-fracturing, and give the entire floor a common material for the thinset to bond to vs trying to bond to Pre-Blend, SLC, AND new concrete....lol...

PS - I dont plan to actually lay the tile for approx 3-4 weeks. I havent actually ordered the tile yet, and also, I would rather the Granite counter people to bring in the countertop BEFORE the new tiles are down. And those guys are going to take 2-3 weeks to get that done. So, I have some time for everything to dry good and apply anything like redguard or HydroBan.

Tileman:
Just curious if that very last comment was sarcastic or not. So hard to tell on the internet. Actually hard to tell about your whole reply. If you were serious, thank you very much. If sarcastic, how come? It was cool to see the pic of exactly what I so crappily tried to describe of the tool he used...lol...Thanks!

It was semi-sarcastic. It wasn't in your best interests to hire a pool man to level your floor. In the end a bad decision turned into somewhat of a windfall as you get what might be considered a latent defect fixed for free. So- good for you. fahreal

I'm surprised you haven't found a decent tile installer.
Did you check with the NTCA?

Yeah, I know I made a mistake by picking this guy, but I have to make the best of it now. I got all the cement out last night and started to dig and level the dirt. We cut out a 6ftx8ft hole out of the cement. Measuring all around the edges, the thickest point was 3", with the average being 2 to 2-1/2", but as low as 1-7/8". Thats terrible. The thought of the rest of my floor probably being just as shitty is not a good one, but at least I can fix this one spot. Take care!

Oh, and I just checked that NTCA list, and there is one listed in my city. I'll give him a call and see if I can get him out here to look at the job. Thanks!

I'm pretty sure that house would be classified as unsound, because the foundation is so thin, but you'd be better served by calling the building department in your town and find out for sure.

Who sold you the house and when did they sell it to you? You might want to contact an attorney, because if you can't hold the builder liable or the people that sold you the home, they might declare your house unsound and make you tear it down. I say, --MIGHT.

Sorry, didn't mean to scare ya, but unfortunately, now-a-days, it seems the bad guys get away with murder and they turn everything around, by using the courts and corrupt lawyers.

It's just as likely that the builder could be made to replace the foundation and home or pay you it's equivelant and get you to move.

Just consider load bearing walls sitting on just 2 inches of concrete. To me, that's a huge,--NO-NO.

It's probably best that you make very careful documentation--via digital camera and tape measure. Check the floor for cracking. If the concrete is cracked and one side of the crack is lower than the other, by a certain amount, I know for a fact that must be fixed.

It is also best, that you get this looked at by the dept of professional building and regulation. Not sure that's the correct name, but it might point you in the proper direction.

It's best to do it right away, so you are sure your not throwing good money after bad and so they physically see it and have no chance at refuting it.

You could get creative. You could call the builder if you like the house so much and want to keep it, but I personally believe you have an unsound house, because of the foundation and your explanations.

Anyway, you could call the builder and show him everything and ask him, before this goes any further, what do you suggest. He will probably ask why you tore-up the floor to begin with and you can tell him, for which he will probably pay for the tile and all the labor to get it done, but I believe you are still in an unsafe house, especially if a big storm and or quake hit.

He might even offer to do more around the house for you.

Just imagine, if word got out that that builder poured such a bad slab, what that would do to his business.

You're a thinking man, take it from there, BUT, MAKE SURE IF YOU DEAL DIRECTLY WITH HIM, TO COVER YOUR ARSE.

HIS WHOLE LIVELIHOOD MAY BE RIDING ON WHAT YOU SAY AND WHAT YOU DON'T SAY.

It is best to simply take what you have to the building and reg dept and an attorney.

My reasoning is as follows. If other people found out about your slab, I'm pretty sure all the other people that bought homes from that builder would want to know if their houses sat on unsafe slabs---PROVIDING, inch and seven eighths is considered unsound, but for any thinking individual, where load bearing walls are concerned, well, that's up to the dept of professional building and regulation, I believe. If they consider it unsound, then just think, if the other people that bought their homes found out, it's very likely they could bring a class action suit, so they could all have their slabs tested,--via--coring-- and the builder would be on the hook for all the testing--AND, for all the labor to pull back all the carpet and other floors. Can you say bankrupt?

Was there rebar in the concrete? I believe there is supposed to be rebar in your slab, just like all other slabs. I'm not positive about that, but I would sure put rebar in if I were pouring a slab and home foundation.

Although I'm just a rugger and what can we know?

quote:

It is best to simply take what you have to the building and reg dept and an attorney.

But they might condem his house!

Mud it

Good lord... all load bearing walls will have footers underneath the slab at those locations . The slab is not supporting the entire house...

Holy cow....thats alot of info there. Kinda scary in a sense, but I dont really want to go throught the trouble of any lawsuits and/or relocating or all that stuff. Like I mentioned, the entire floor isnt 2", but out of the 6ftx8ft section cut out, the thickest was 3", average was 2.5", and thinest was 1-7/8". The spot that originally busted up was 1-3/4" in the center of the cutout. We have already filled in the cutout today to a full 5" throughout. I think I will just wing it on the hopes that the roof doesnt come down on me .