Preview the new Flooring Installer .com website

I am doing a kitchen remodel as we speak, and it is time to get the new floor going. I am looking for someone that can remove old vinyl, level my slab, and lay 18x18 (most likely) porcelain tiles. I am having trouble finding someone that seems to be trustworthy of doing a good job, and I have had very bad luck with all the other work so far, so I am looking to get this very important part of the remodel right for a change ... I hope to find someone that has been doing this for a long time and knows their stuff inside and out, and is willing to back up their work. Someone that isnt afraid of doing 1/16" grout lines if necessary, and knows exactly what needs to be done to make that happen. If anyone can help me out, please let me know, or even supply me with some proven top notch recommendations. As mentioned in title, I am located in Newport News, VA which is about an hour east of Richmond, and close to Williamsburg, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, etc.... Thanks a ton for any help you can provide and take care everyone!

You can reach me at 757-285-4013 (Kevin)

-or-

ksteele1@cox.net

Hello kevin, glad to see you found the place alright



there are alot of great craftsmen here, I hope one of them can help you.

.

Is the 1/16 grout joint a typo or are you serious? Maybe you were thinking 3/16.

1/16" are quite do-able IF its rectified porcelain. Actually its pretty standard with rectified porcelain.

If it is not rectified porcelain 1/16" joints might not work because of tile size variance.

Please note rectified porcelain is milled to exact size tolerance, where standard porcelain is not, thus untra-thin joints sometimes are not possible with the latter.

quote:

Originally posted by hardknees:
Is the 1/16 grout joint a typo or are you serious? Maybe you were thinking 3/16.

Hmmm...no typo and I am very serious. As Floorman mentioned, it can be done with rectified tile. I am making it a point to avoid anyone that says they cant do it, or that it cant be done, simply because I feel if they havent done it succesfully, they dont have enough practice/experience in the field. I am not saying that there arent pros out there at laying larger grout line tiling, but I feel that if they have experience with the smaller grout lines, they are just that much better. Just IMO of coarse. I am not having any luck at all finding anyone though

Just wondering. Its done with stone a lot but I never see rectified tile around here.

quote:

Originally posted by hardknees:
Just wondering. Its done with stone a lot but I never see rectified tile around here.

So where is "around here"? Are you located in VA by chance?

My location is identified by longitude and latitude at the bottom of my posts Kevin.

I just finished a 20" x 3/8" (50mm X 10mm) porcelain on a diagonal/ashlar with 1/16" joints. Couldn't do it straight with this tile but get a little creative with the layout and its doable. Also using a 100% solids epoxy grout, absolutely no sand. If ya want a pro and are willing to pay for travel, lodging and per diem I'm yours.

WOW, that looks very nice! I wish you were near me because I dont think I can justify the extra expenses to get you here for the job. Thanks for the pic. Take care!

quote:

Originally posted by ĆĦĄØŞ:
I just finished a 20" x 3/8" (50mm X 10mm) porcelain on a diagonal/ashlar with 1/16" joints. Couldn't do it straight with this tile but get a little creative with the layout and its doable. Also using a 100% solids epoxy grout, absolutely no sand. If ya want a pro and are willing to pay for travel, lodging and per diem I'm yours.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin:
I am doing a kitchen remodel as we speak, and it is time to get the new floor going. I am looking for someone that can remove old vinyl, level my slab, and lay 18x18 (most likely) porcelain tiles. I am having trouble finding someone that seems to be trustworthy of doing a good job, and I have had very bad luck with all the other work so far, so I am looking to get this very important part of the remodel right for a change ... I hope to find someone that has been doing this for a long time and knows their stuff inside and out, and is willing to back up their work. Someone that isnt afraid of doing 1/16" grout lines if necessary, and knows exactly what needs to be done to make that happen. If anyone can help me out, please let me know, or even supply me with some proven top notch recommendations. As mentioned in title, I am located in Newport News, VA which is about an hour east of Richmond, and close to Williamsburg, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, etc.... Thanks a ton for any help you can provide and take care everyone!

you need rectified tile to do 1/16" grout width.

You can reach me at 757-285-4013 (Kevin)

-or-

ksteele1@cox.net

oopos//

You need rectified tile to accomplish 1/16" grout width.

That's obviously not true.

Ken,

That some mighty fine craftsmanship right there.

well done.



Kevin,

Keep looking and you will eventually find who you are looking for. It is true that not every tile mechanic will have the experience to do the rectified work, so stick to your guns and good commonm sense. Don't rush it with someone your arent confident in. You are 100% right in not allowing anyone to do the job when they feel the joint size for the tile type isnt possible or might be difficult, because it obvious they have no experience with rectified porcelain (no offense to anyone meant).

It is more time consuming to layout and install, so expect to pay quite a bit more for it as opposed to standard ceramic. For instance our rectified porcelain work for residential starts around $7.00 - $8.00 a square foot for installation only, and goes up from there depending on footages and complexity of the install.

Please post some pictures if you can when you get it done.

I love viewing expert craftmanship pics.

good luck !

This message has been edited. Last edited by: floorman67,

Man, I sure wish you were close to me in VA, as those are similar to the quotes I have been getting from people that I do NOT feel comfortable with after talking to them. And these were highly recommended people. They basically seem to follow the same rule. They always seem to play their words very carefully about how well it will turn out with small grout lines, so that they can go back after they screw it up and say "See, I told you it would be hard to do, and you cant blame me now, because I told you that". Thats the sense I get when talking to them, and I dont like it at all. I am having no luck at all so far and this needs to get done ASAP, so I am in a bad spot. Is it really gonna come down to flying someone out....lol....

quote:

Originally posted by floorman67:
Ken,

That some mighty fine craftsmanship right there.

well done.



Kevin,

Keep looking and you will eventually find who you are looking for. It is true that not every tile mechanic will have the experience to do the rectified work, so stick to your guns and good commonm sense. Don't rush it with someone your arent confident in. You are 100% right in not allowing anyone to do the job when they feel the joint size for the tile type isnt possible or might be difficult, because it obvious they have no experience with rectified porcelain (no offense to anyone meant).

It is more time consuming to layout and install, so expect to pay quite a bit more for it as opposed to standard ceramic. For instance our rectified porcelain work for residential starts around $7.00 - $8.00 a square foot for installation only, and goes up from there depending on footages and complexity of the install.

Please post some pictures if you can when you get it done.

I love viewing expert craftmanship pics.

good luck !

The first guy backed out completely before even coming out for estimate, stating that he doesnt have the time.

The second guy, acted as though he could do the small grout lines, but made me uncomfortable by saying one particular thing. Maybe I am just reading into it too far and/or being too picky, but it really bothered me. He said that he wishes that I had not already painted the walls, because there is always a chance that the walls could be damaged. He said that things get hectic sometimes laying tile, and that things happen such that a tile or elbow might hit a wall while spinning around. That sounded pretty crappy/careless to me. If he would be that careless with my walls, what about my precise floor? Would he tell a million dollar homeowner the same thing? Would he tell them that he wishes their walls werent already finished because he might mess them up?

The third guy sounded great on the phone telling me that he could do the small grout lines, and that he does million dollar homes and is the best in the area. BUT, when he cam to my house, he story changed. He then blamed me for sounding like I was expecting too much perfection with small grout lines, and he wouldnt feel comfortable doind it anymore with lines that small. He feels that he can only give me perfection with 13x13 tile at a minimum of 1/8" and with 18 or 20" with minimum of 3/16" lines. He basically said everything he possibly could to protect himself, so that when he botches the job, he could say "See, I told you it wasnt possible".

The last recommended guy, I cat get ahold of at all.

I am now stuck and in bad need of a pro installer. PLEASE HELP ANYONE!!!!!

So Kevin, are you buying rectified tile or not?

You can shave the edges of the tiles if you run off a bit. Its not an impossible job, just difficult. Plus the floor needs to be very flat. Myself, I would prep the floor first rather than float as you go type installation.

How old is the vinyl? Checked for asbestos?

quote:

Originally posted by hardknees:
So Kevin, are you buying rectified tile or not?
You can shave the edges of the tiles if you run off a bit. Its not an impossible job, just difficult. Plus the floor needs to be very flat. Myself, I would prep the floor first rather than float as you go type installation.
How old is the vinyl? Checked for asbestos?

Well, me and the girlfriend both took the day off yesterday, to run all over the place to finalize a decision on the specific tile to buy. Unfortunately, what we found is how limited the selection is for rectified tile, and with how picky my color and style tastes are, I was basically at a loss for finding what I wanted in rectified. So, now I am thinking of backing off rectified, and just going with a standard tile in a design and color that I really like, and just hoping to get the tightest lines I can get. I dont know how small I can go on standard tiles though without problems. I hate it, but I may have to make that slight compromise.

As far as the flatness goes, I figured it should be exceptionally flat, more-so for the larger tiles. I would figure that it should be leveled with something like "self-leveling" concrete or something like that, instead of just trying to make it flat with the thinset. I am getting the impressions so far from the guys that came out, that they only want to use "self-leveler" in the one high spot, and not on all of the imperfections, which also are as low as 3/8" deep in spots.

I think it is the original vinyl, but not positive. The house is 21 years old. I dont know if this is 21 year old vinyl or not. Also dont know about the asbestos thing. Nobody that looked at it so far has mentioned anything about it being asbestos.

kevin,

If you do not go with rectified porcelain, you may have to make further compromise in the joint size, and this may make you dislike the total project and have ill feelings overall. I am not saying this is the case, but I have had customers in the past who wanted ultra thin joints, and i specced rectified porcelain to them, but they picked another tile and did not like the larger joint sizes the the tile size variance required.

Joint size is directly related to tile size variance. I am not saying that you can not find a good high end tile that is capable of being installed with ultra thin joints, but it all depends on the tile. Again, rectified is milled/honed to tight tolerances for the ultra thin joint capability.

There are many manufacturers of rectified porcelain around, with my two favorites being: Crossville Ceramics and Florida Tile

As to flatness, screeding or SLC will work fine if the installers knows what they are doing. I prefer the screed patching method that covers they whole area. You are right that large dimension tiles need to have a flat substrate, but the most important factors here are the isntallation methods used, with the installer using a level to lay accross the tiles to ensure there is no lippage, then they can pull and butter/remove thinset as needed to maintain flushness from tile to tile. Without proper installation methods even that flattest substrate/subfloor can have tile lippage that would be considered installer error.

Lastly, a 21 year old house will not have asbestos in it unless they used a very old flooring product. 21 years places your house being built in 1986. The USA federal government placed a ban on asbestos manufacturing in 1977 I believe and made any distriubution, sales, and/or installations illegal in 1979 or 1980 I believe, or somewhere very close to these dates, so in 1986 you should be completely safe in regards to asbestos.

Another website you might try is John Bridge Tile Forums. It is about the busiest tile forums around and there are some great craftsmen there. I might have forgotten to include them in my response to your original email.

My finished flatness tolerence is a five gallon bucket filled with three gallons of water. If you slide it across the floor and it hits lippage and spills over then I tear that part out.

ASTM should take notice.

ASTM bu-1151